Tsi Insurance quotes

Model Specific Discussions about the Sling TSi.
CDSmith
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Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by CDSmith »

Hello all - looking into a Sling TsI build, and getting some ideas of what insurance will look like.

I got a recent "likely" quote (since it's obv not an actual aircraft yet) of $10K - $15K annual for hull and liability! Nothing extreme in the coverage limits. I'm a sub-200 hour PPL holder, but I didn't expect those kinds of numbers. I'm working on IR and obv building hours, but I don't think that will chop it in half.

Anyone else getting eye-watering quotes for insurance?

Edit: Add'l info: was told only 2 insurers underwrite TSi's at the moment. Not enough units flying. This is though EAA / Falcon, who I thought would be a good source given the "experimental" angle ...
Heftiger
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Re: Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by Heftiger »

What hull value did you get quoted?
CDSmith
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Re: Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by CDSmith »

I put $250K for a ballpark - realize the replacement value is likely higher, but that seemed reasonable.

BTW the firm annual quote for builder insurance for this amount was $1500 - also seemed high.

Without hull coverage and just liability, the likely quote was about $4K
Heftiger
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Re: Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by Heftiger »

I heard that premiums balloon above $200k hull value. I would be curious to know what quotes you get at $199k.
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ibgarrett
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Re: Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by ibgarrett »

Insurance is one of the most blood sucking scams going these days and even more so for aviation. Their stories have changed over the past several years as to why insurance rates have gone up, but regardless of what their reasons for the prices the bottom line is they are a business who isn't willing to risk losing profits. So to make sure they remain profitable, the first step in the process is to charge as much as possible from the onset. If there are no claims, profits are up.

I'm more than half way through my build and realize insurance is going to be a major PITA. Tricks from other Tsi fliers I've heard of has been to only do liability insurance for the first year. That will drop your price way way down. The risk is on you at that time because if you damage the aircraft you'll effectively have to self-insure. If you think about it though - because you'd be the builder you can repair any part of the plane. Aside from a total loss of the aircraft, if you damaged a wing and had to rebuild it - how much does a new wing from Sling cost? Is it less than $10k to $15k? I think so (I haven't check the prices). So is it worth having full coverage at that rate? Probably not, because if you don't damage anything then you've saved some cash. If you do damage something, you're only out the cost for the materials to repair the broken part.

Liability is a fraction of the overall cost and makes it a bit more affordable. They also might be able to do liability and non-movement coverage in case it got dinged in a hangar or something.

I have heard though that after a year of flying your insurance rates go down dramatically. Somehow the insurance companies suddenly don't care about how few of the Tsi's are flying but you've been flying yours for a while, so they see you as less of a risk. Which tells me the volume of Tsi's flying has nothing to do with their metrics.

Not that I have an opinion about things, but insurance companies are bottom dwellers and I couldn't imagine ever working for them. It's between them and ambulance chasing lawyers is what has made flying nearly impossibly expensive to fly.
Brian Garrett
CDSmith
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Re: Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by CDSmith »

You make some great points about the options, and the flexibility we have with experimental aircraft.

If it's a whole loss in a flight accident, there's likely other issues I'm dealing with! And if it happens in the hanger non-moving, that should have nothing to do with the airplane or the pilot so hopefully not so dear a cost.

Good food for thought. And I'll see what happens for hull values < $200K, though I've heard they don't like to "under-insure" for whatever reason.
BG8473
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Re: Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by BG8473 »

I wonder how much of that is due to the Tsi having 4 seats. It would be interesting to compare insurance quotes for a Sling 2. If number of seats is really a factor, perhaps you can leave the rear seats out for the first year while you fly off the 40 hours. Of course you would have to convince the insurance company that your 4 seat airplane is really a 2 seater.
CDSmith
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Re: Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by CDSmith »

BG8473 wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:54 am I wonder how much of that is due to the Tsi having 4 seats. It would be interesting to compare insurance quotes for a Sling 2. If number of seats is really a factor, perhaps you can leave the rear seats out for the first year while you fly off the 40 hours. Of course you would have to convince the insurance company that your 4 seat airplane is really a 2 seater.
I think the Sling2/NGT is certified, and an LSA, so not sure comparable for insurance. My understanding is the underwriters would go off the registered place capacity, not what you declare
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lutorm
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Re: Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by lutorm »

ibgarrett wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:56 am Not that I have an opinion about things, but insurance companies are bottom dwellers and I couldn't imagine ever working for them. It's between them and ambulance chasing lawyers is what has made flying nearly impossibly expensive to fly.
Well, I'm no fan of the insurance situation but I don't think it's fair to just blame the companies. They are businesses, not public service organizations with a purpose to help people to fly (although that would be nice), and to me the problem seems to be that people keep crashing their planes.

The fact that the liability quotes almost always are reasonable but hull coverage is crazy can only be interpreted as the risk of third party damage being relatively small but the risk of banging up your airplane large. I mean, if the insurance companies really wanted to fleece people they should hike the liability premiums -- that's after all the coverage you are required to have. No one's forcing anyone to carry hull coverage.

Personally, I think it's reasonable that if you can afford to build your own airplane, you can also afford to self-insure against hull damage. (Not liability, that can bankrupt you and is probably illegal, but if you don't have hull coverage the worst thing that can happen is you no longer have an airplane.)
Blog of various projects: https://blog.familjenjonsson.org/blog/
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ibgarrett
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Re: Tsi Insurance quotes

Post by ibgarrett »

Well, I'm no fan of the insurance situation but I don't think it's fair to just blame the companies. They are businesses, not public service organizations with a purpose to help people to fly (although that would be nice), and to me the problem seems to be that people keep crashing their planes.
I'd probably tone my enthusiasm down a bit if the insurance quotes were more inline with other 4 seaters out there. The fact that RV10's get insured for less and carry just as many folks is what bugs me. The insurance company's reasoning? It's an untested/unknown airplane. While the Tsi is certainly a "newer" aircraft - it's been available since 2018 and to the best of my knowledge there has been exactly one crash - and that was sadly only a few months ago. I still hope that Sling shares their findings of what happened.

Regardless - it's the gymnastics they go through to justify their rate increases that started around the time Covid hit and with the Tsi being "new" they see that as an opportunity to help boost their bottom lines.
Brian Garrett
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