De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Model Specific Discussions about the Sling TSi.
yamil
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De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by yamil »

Howdy, does anyone know of a de-icing/anti-icing system that is compatible w/the TSI?

Im aware generally of the three main ways of combating ice (Bladder that expands/contracts, Heating system on wings, fluid weeping system, combination of the above). I have not been able to find anything, and when I reached to the TAF, they do not have anything so far.
With the performance envelope of this plane, I think an ice combating system could be of great value.
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PhilipRueker
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Re: De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by PhilipRueker »

I briefly looked at the topic myself before, but there's a lot of things you'd have to figure out and at the end of the day.

While you might be able to come up with your own solution for the wings, you'd still also need to find a way for the prop and I actually talked to the people from Airmaster at Oshkosh and they don't have a heated prop.

Also you might need an extra alternator to power the system.

So it would really come down to where you leave and how badly you want this as it would sure be pretty costly.
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Re: De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by Custom Aircraft Builders »

The prop would be the first thing you would want to de-ice. If there isn't a solution for that first, there's no reason to spend time figuring out something for the airframe.

I have worked with the Kelly Aerospace Thermawing system for years but it's a power hog (7,500 watts) and requires a 130 amp, 70 volt alternator to run it. You can feel the 310 hp engine loose RPMs when it operates. Unfortunately, the 915is won't cut it. Otherwise, Thermawing would be nice because it's electric. https://www.goodrichaviation.com/thermawing

If the prop was de-iced, probably TKS would be the only potential airframe solution.
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permagray
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Re: De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by permagray »

So I was thinking ...

Has anyone tried running a manifold heater type of system and piping it through the wings - they are mostly hollow afterall.
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Re: De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by Mlavigne »

not sure if this is what you meant by a manifold heater, but what about adding a hydronic loop of the coolant like radiant floor heating? A loop of PEX tubing, held in place to the leading edge with heavy duty aluminum tape and then backfill with spray foam (this is how they make refrigerators, the aluminum tape is thick enough to be a heat spreader and the foam backing keeps it from peeling back). A 140HP motor (even at 60% power) should output much more heat to the coolant than 7500W that the electric unit. The TSI already has coolant in the cabin for the heater, so should be fairly easy to tap off of?
I'm still haven't placed my order yet, so forgive me if its not mechanically possible. And doing HVAC design for a-living... well, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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Re: De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by Custom Aircraft Builders »

Michael,
That's an interesting idea. It might even be lighter weight than TKS on a Cirrus because it's a closed system and not a tank. I would think you would need a different radiator with a separate way of exchanging heat so that if you had a leak someplace in the de-icing system, you wouldn't lose all your engine coolant.
It still doesn't solve the prop issue. If there is ever to be a de-ice system for a Sling/Rotax, the prop needs to be solved first and then the airframe but this idea of circulating fluid is worth chewing on.
Thanks,
Doug
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Mlavigne
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Re: De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by Mlavigne »

a brazed plate heat exchanger would be light and easy- although you could run the loops with PEX so that the only fittings were in the cabin under the dash where the cabin heater is. you could always install emergency isolation shutoffs (ball valves)- it would be fairly obvious if you had a leak. This type of pipe is designed to get poured into a concrete slab where it can never be serviced, so I see minimal risk of puncture unless your wing receives catastrophic sharp force trauma... i would hope you would be finding a field in this case anyways (although its never good to add an engine failure to another emergency).
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Sinorm
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Re: De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by Sinorm »

I'm very interested in a Sling TSi but the lack of anti-icing is a huge issue for my planned flying. I contacted The Airplane Factory to ask if anything was planned here, and unfortunately they said there are not any plans. They estimate a weight penalty of ~30 lbs for a TKS system and don't feel that there are enough customers willing to take the weight hit to justify the development effort. If you would pay extra for a TKS-equipped plane let them know so maybe they will consider it for the future!
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Re: De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by msejourne »

WANT vs NEED
2 years ago I WANTED to shop for a cross-country airplane and being Canadian, I also felt I WANTED the Ice Protection preferably FIKI (Flight Into Known Icing). For my budget of approx. $200K+, yes I did find T210s, Mooneys, Bonanzas and some 182s. Unfortunately most of them are 40-60 years old with WWII engine technology, corrosion problems, hard to find certified parts and steam driven gauges where upgrading to glass cost more than the aircraft would be worth after. Hence, I quickly realized this WANTED came at a great COST.

As much as TKS would provide a level of protection for the airframe and windshield. Unfortunately, it would NOT be available for the Airmaster propeller, which is the most important component to protect due to asymmetric ice shedding hazard. Also, I personally spoke to Jeff Holden at CAV Systems https://www.cav-systems.com/tks/retrofit/ 2 years ago, and he said that developing a case study for an Amateur-built aircraft is cost prohibitive due to the low number of examples out there, and the even smaller number of owners who would be prepared to pay the extra $60-70K for the installation. He also stated that achieving FIKI (Flight Into Known Icing) requires 2 alternators.

What do I NEED?
For the 17 years I owned airplanes (a 172 and a 177RG) and flew across all of Canada & USA, I only really NEEDED ice protection twice. However by using prior planning, if it looks like icing is going to prevent me from getting somewhere I really need to get to with my airplane, I figure $60-70K can buy me several commercial airline tickets and hangar/parking space. In my case, I will be retired so if icing is an issue, my wife and I will just have to spend a bit more cash and time with our friends, or meet new friends while we wait for the weather to improve. So with a little prior planning and a little of the cash saved, I figure I DON'T NEED De/Anti-icing.
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Re: De-icing / Anti-Icing Systems for the TSI

Post by ibgarrett »

^^^ This should be published in every GA aviation magazine out there.
Brian Garrett
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